Curse

bigwig · Sep 01, 2006, 07:39 AM // 07:39

am i the only person thats been downloading material in the background, tons of it, lately? i had assumed this was the cause of peoples lag problems. but as no one else has mentioned it, maybe not.

samifly · Sep 01, 2006, 08:13 AM // 08:13

For all of you who arent suffering from lag, great, congratulations, you are one of the lucky few. Half of the community is suffering from this lag.
This is not, a computer issue, if 4 people disconnect at the same time.
And yes I sent a trouble ticket, it was a waste of time, ending in the suggestion I run an antispyware test.
I run 3+ antispyware software programs. Its not spyware.
It's their problem.

A couple of months back there was an issue where some people in some areas (including me) could not log in at all.
Other people experianced no problems at all.
Guess what? Its happened again.
The game is unplayable i've lagged out so many times in missions and quests it is incredibly frustrating.

I just love this "i havent had any problems, it must be your fault" attitude.

Isil`Zha · Sep 01, 2006, 08:18 AM // 08:18

Oh yeah, when playing with friends/guildies they've noted that most of the time there's 2 or 3 others in the game that "leave" at the exact same time that I got err 7'd.

There's some rather big problem somewhere along the line...

Amity and Truth · Sep 01, 2006, 08:32 AM // 08:32

I'm suffering from lots of Err7, Lagpauses and Teleporting around again. I've contacted the support and they told me the usual nonsense "your fault, bla bla yadda yadda".
I went into the boards, had a look, found hundreds of these threads and just knew it is not my fault. Especially as a tracert made it quite clear that the problem isn't even remotely anywhere on my side.

A-Net REALLY needs to rework their Support System. As it is now, the stupid standard procedure you've got to go through everytime these kind of things occur in a wide scale is just ridiculous. A-Net, please...

Quote:

Network News

No network news at this time.

Besides, where is the "absolutely up to date note" on this site? This is like the fourth time the issues are not mentioned there after we were told to check that page regularly. The thing that has to change about the Support is to simply acknowledge widescale problems instead of letting them bounce of the automated defense system uhmmmm sorry i mean... ticket system.

majoho · Sep 01, 2006, 08:43 AM // 08:43

No lag for me.

Inde · Sep 01, 2006, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isil`Zha

Oh yeah, when playing with friends/guildies they've noted that most of the time there's 2 or 3 others in the game that "leave" at the exact same time that I got err 7'd.

There's some rather big problem somewhere along the line...

Well, here's the thing, how is their networking set up? Once you are in an instance are you peer-to-peer? If so, you are not on the ArenaNet servers any more. Now depending on how they are set up it could be a spoke, with a primary person hosting. Or more likely a chain... which means that if one person drops the other people behind him in the chain will drop. Which could include why 2 or 3 people are dropping at the same time. Maybe someone has more information here.

Burn Butt · Sep 01, 2006, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by samifly

For all of you who arent suffering from lag, great, congratulations, you are one of the lucky few. Half of the community is suffering from this lag.
This is not, a computer issue, if 4 people disconnect at the same time.

The game is unplayable i've lagged out so many times in missions and quests it is incredibly frustrating.

I just love this "i havent had any problems, it must be your fault" attitude.

Come on... And I don't love your attitude too? First of all your assertions are bogus. I do not experience problems and your assertion that I am one of a 'lucky few' is bananas. Also your belief that 'half the community is suffering from this problem?' Come on... At least let's start the discussion in reality. Stretching the truth does not further the discussion, and lends NO credibility to what you are saying.

If you wanted to start off with 'a few of us' experience problems or something fine... But seriously 9 out of 10 times the problem, I would think, has to reside somewhere between you and Anet. I have been working as a computer/networking engineer for over 10 years... enough to know a little bit about what I'm talking about. Are you suggesting that ANet is picking on your account personally? Here's where the problem can occur:

a) something on your network
b) something in your router
c) something on your computer
d) something at your ISP
e) something in your primary internet backbone
f) something in the route from your backbone into ANets backbone
g) something at ANet

ANet MUST have multiple servers. Is it possible that some of them are bad or not running correctly? Sure... But chances are EXTREMELY high that these servers are setup to handle X amount of load, and not that your account is specifically tied to one given server.... Meaning, we would ALL have this problem if you did too.... I simply don't have it, ever. It really makes me think it's something out of ANets control unless it's a major gateway or backbone issue.... Tell me, how does it HAVE to be them?

Eviance · Sep 01, 2006, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Heck Inde *whoneverrespondsCOUGH* during Gailes little talk I was in Int D2 waiting to see if anyone had anything interesting to say - err7 - log on - 2random people cussing about err7 knocking them out of their chat with Gaile.
A few mins passed and I lagged.. err7 again, log on, another random person cussing about how they had just err7'd out of her chat... -_- These weren't the same people each time, they were in a different district from me and still err7'd at the same time. I talked to the few people in that district and it's just silly how wide spread the issue is.

Red and I cannot play together in a guild group cause we know that when one of us goes down it will take the other and usually Barrie's will err7 too - meaning they have lost 2-3 teammates... How can any of us play together?

I recall last time there was an issue they kept saying it was us, over and over they said it was us. Finally after several weeks they decided "maybe" it was on their end and so they moved the servers or fixed something (I don't recall the exact fix) but it worked.

Now I am sure that a small fraction of those of us experiencing the err7s and lag have the issue on our own end and thats something Anet cannot fix. But I know for a fact that mine and Red's has nothing to do with our ISP or our computers - we both have revamped/new computers and we KNOW when its our issue. (Those little green blinking lights on this little black box tell me when my ISP is being a biatch which does happen from time to time.)

Maybe it is a case of defragging the dat file *shrugs* I dunno, I am no as PC savvy as some but I might try it later. I do know that the lag and err7s came after an update but I might have to sift to find out which one.... I know it was around the time they changed the colors of the bars, but I can't recall if it was THAT one or the one before it. And with each update its just getting worse.

Some days I can idle all day in the GH but if I try to go to any other outposts or do missions it turns into "the world hates you, please disconnect your computer and stab out your eyes err7, thank you and have a great day"...

Err7 can BITE MY ASS! >_< (starting with the farthest acre!)

Yo Burn Butt, were you not around when nearly everyone in the entire game err7'd within 5mins... 4ppl in my group err7d, the leader starts yelling about our connection and then he and the last 3ppl left err7 - we are back in the Deep outpost and everyone is going WFT - We ERR7d! My guild chat was full of "Anyone else err7 just now?" The alliance chat was full of it... There were maybe 3ppl that responded that they didn't only to come back a few mins later and go "there's mine!"
It does happen on their end and this wouldn't be the first time! They had a total server crash that time I think. Go to the towns and talk to people about the lag and err7s and you will see that it is affecting a LOT of the community.

Inde · Sep 01, 2006, 03:21 PM // 15:21

But see Burn, this proves one of my points exactly. The network engineers, the server administrators (whatever title they give themselves) have probably done the same as you and automatically written off this problem as belonging to the user so what's the point of checking into it

. I work with a lot of these people and I can tell you firsthand that this is the first response of a server admin. Only until they can see it affecting many people will they even take the time to research into it. The fact that, again, SO MANY have been reporting this problem as of late means that something is indeed going on that is out of the user's control and does indeed point to ArenaNet.

Carinae · Sep 01, 2006, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Burn Butt, stop trolling.

Read this thread, read the other four threads about lagging.

1) The lagging complaints began en masse during the last 'Weekend Event', the week before GWFC.

2) People who NEVER lagged before are now lagging out several times a night.

3) When people lag out and log back in, there are usually several other people complaining about being booted at the same time. Sometimes entire parties are booted. The complaints are legitimate and real, we are not exagerating about 'half the community is suffering'!

3) Geographically, the worst hit areas seem to be USA Midwest and East Coast, Canada, and Europe.

4) When people get an Error=7, EVERYONE can still access the internet, www, email, etc...

Based on those 4 items alone, it's not anyones NIC, network, router, computer or ISP. It could be a backbone issue of some sort, I guess, if Canada, the midwest, east coast and Europe all go through the same backbone....but that seems unlikely.

The only common point for all this is Anet. The fact that the troubles began when the last weekend event and continued two weeks (so far) while Anets staff was in Europe seems more than coincidental.

Even if it isn't their fault, they need to publically acknowledge the problem and help locate it! I'm sure Anet can put more pressure on a backbone provider than you or I can.

quickmonty · Sep 01, 2006, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Just throwing in my $0.02 so the powers that be can count one more lag victim. All week I've been experiencing lags, err=7 and disconnects from my friends list. Strange how these problems seem to occur after updates for weekend events. My theory is that there are bugs in these updates and they need to be corrected. I am one of many who are having doubts about purchasing future chapters because of all these problems and the fact that it make the game virtually unplayable at times. Yeh ... I know ... no subsciption fees and all that ... but what good is a game if you can't play it 30 or 40% of the time?

Ado · Sep 01, 2006, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Discussion Thread
Response (GM Gus) 09/01/2006 01:30 PM
Hello Ado,

Thanks for contacting the Guild Wars customer support team. We always appreciate hearing from our players. The problem you have reported is a known issue and the development team is already working on an appropriate solution. However, we are going to forward your enquiry to our QA department in order to provide the development team with as much information as possible.

Thank you very much for your patience and understanding, as well as your interest in helping to improve Guild Wars. Please feel free to contact the support team again if you encounter any other problems.

Regards,
GM GUS

NCsoft Europe
Guild Wars Customer Support

EternalTempest · Sep 01, 2006, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Last night was horrible. Did the Shift+F10 and was shocked how close I was on beind kicked off constantly. Experienced odd things like can't move but stuff still going on.

I did a diag gw.exe -diag and looked at the network routing from the log it created and it's NOT related to my ISP/PC. It looks to be the service provide that anet uses to the server I'm hitting or there servers directly.

I did not get a chance to send the diag report to anet last night, but will do so today.

Bane of Worlds · Sep 01, 2006, 03:53 PM // 15:53

one of the few things I tried in the past to fix problems was to clean the dust that needs cleaning with compressed air since not everyone will clean their computer for a good amount of time and this could solve a few problems like how the pc will just start lagging and continue to do so while playing a game and or sometimes it may just unexpectly restart.

for those that are suffering fromt he error7s, it affects everyone who is playing the game regardless if you don't suffer from it but your teammate or group will affect you.

Burn Butt · Sep 01, 2006, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

But see Burn, this proves one of my points exactly. The network engineers, the server administrators (whatever title they give themselves) have probably done the same as you and automatically written off this problem as belonging to the user so what's the point of checking into it

. I work with a lot of these people and I can tell you firsthand that this is the first response of a server admin. Only until they can see it affecting many people will they even take the time to research into it. The fact that, again, SO MANY have been reporting this problem as of late means that something is indeed going on that is out of the user's control and does indeed point to ArenaNet.

The message quoted above does bring up what I think is a good point and relative to advancing the debate. You are correct that many a system admin is quick to dismiss other people's problems as being 'problems on their end'. Add to that the fact that I am not a system admin at ANet or in any way have access to their logs, servers, etc. This makes me even LESS informed as to my opinion on the matter... This being said however, I think it's fair to establish a few things, please feel free to disagree with me on any point below:

- Most people are not network or system engineers and can be relatively unaware of conditions on their systems, routers, ISPs etc. which would inhibit gameplay.

- Many people use lag as an excuse in GW for underperforming in missions and PvP.

- People who drop from missions or PvP are treated often with a routine assumption that they err7'ed, even when there is no proof of the fact.

- There are SEVERAL possible points of failure which could cause lag or dissconection from ANet servers.

Those points in mind, how can it be drawn to conclusion that problems MUST exist on ANet servers? By the same token as you argue that system admins dismiss others as having problems too quickly, don't you think that it is also true that end users ALSO often too quickly dismiss the problem as being with the servers?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

Burn Butt, stop trolling.

Read this thread, read the other four threads about lagging.

Are you serious? I'm trolling if I don't read every word of 4 different threads and just take it verbatim?

Carinae, I think you might have arrived at a conclusion, and are now working backwards to prove it. Evident as such by the fact that you seem to also have it down to specific areas of the country/world which are getting hit the hardest... I'm SURE you don't have the statistical information to back that up, and YES all of those areas CAN go through the same backbone.... A backbone is like a Big-ol-river of which several smaller streams join into. There are a very limited number of backbones out there. Where backbones join and talk to one another can become clogged. Often this, more than anything else, can be the biggest cause of data lag. As residential users our packets are usually given a lower priority for routing than commercial data and voice packets when switched. Here's what I think can be stated as fact:

- Updates from ANet, the larger they are, cause more draw to available bandwidth than at any other event on the servers. Everyone who is logging onto their accounts after an update is being streamed the update at a high level of bandwidth, chocking off the servers. I have personally experienced a lot of lag around the time of updates, but it always fades away as more and more people get the update.

- A server crash would certainly cause everyone connected to that server to disconnect. This is something that I would consider reasonable network interuption unless it is happenning all the time. Sysadmins would be aware of this and would certainly not point the finger at end users for the reason THEIR servers crash.

- GW is up and running more than any other MMO I can think of, save maybe a few that nobody plays.

Am I saying FOR SURE that ANet doesn't have a problem? No... I'm simply saying that I have NEVER err7'ed in over 600 hours of play, nor have I experienced massive lag to the point where I found the game unplayable. Nobody has yet been able to explain to me why I would be left out of all of the problems, if the problem resided at ANet.... Can anyone tell me?

Isil`Zha · Sep 01, 2006, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

Well, here's the thing, how is their networking set up? Once you are in an instance are you peer-to-peer? If so, you are not on the ArenaNet servers any more. Now depending on how they are set up it could be a spoke, with a primary person hosting. Or more likely a chain... which means that if one person drops the other people behind him in the chain will drop. Which could include why 2 or 3 people are dropping at the same time. Maybe someone has more information here.

That makes sense why multiple people are dropping. But considering the circumstances of the whole thing affecting so many people, I'd have to conclude that even with an instance, Anet's servers still have a part in it, and if it drops one person chained with others, all those people that are chained together drop.

But then, I don't know how they have their servers set-up for it either.

Phaern Majes · Sep 01, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Guild Wars rarely does this. I believe this is the 2nd or 3rd time I've seen this big of a complaint about lag or server problems in the year and three months the game has been going (longer if you include the beta). It happens, but lets consider yesterday they were streaming a ton of stuff for the unlocking packages. Not to mention they most likely started streaming some of the 6 man HoH stuff. This is going to cause more lag than normal.

I don't pay monthly fees, so I expect this crap. I don't blame them for a bit of it, cause I know they will fix it. I have played WoW and am starting FFXI, no I never experienced lag on WoW, and still haven't on FFXI. But I don't expect to if I'm paying them to maintain their servers every month.

Anyways just saying complainings not going to get anyone anywhere. The Devs have other things they are doing too, its not just making sure every last person is enjoying the game to the fullest...........

Carinae · Sep 01, 2006, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burn Butt

Evident as such by the fact that you seem to also have it down to specific areas of the country/world which are getting hit the hardest... I'm SURE you don't have the statistical information to back that up...

That's why I asked you to read the other four threads. We all started posting regional locations, and lo and behold, there was a pattern! Granted a couple of dozen forum posts isn't conclusive, but it's enough to get a rough picture.

Are you suggesting that quite a few GW players NICs went on the blitz exactly two weeks ago, but only affects GW?, or that these people's drivers became corrupted two weeks ago, and only affects GW?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burn Butt

Nobody has yet been able to explain to me why I would be left out of all of the problems, if the problem resided at ANet.... Can anyone tell me?

Where do you live? The west coast seems completely unaffected.

The West coast probably feeds off of a different backbone AND into a different datacenter.

Eviance · Sep 01, 2006, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Is it possible that when we recieved our updates that not everyone got the full version or that something else slipped in?

Could be that the backbone itself needs better structure?

It could be a simple defrag the dat file issue, I don't know.

What I do know:

It is not my ISP and when I know it is I don't come here complaining about Anets' lack of competence for keeping their servers nice.
I HAVE personally talked to people in game about the lag outs and err7s (try it ya might get some insight). Some of them can't even get across town cause they keep rubberbanding.

This is the second time (not the first) that a vast majority of the player base is having err7s and mass lag and I have personally been a part of it both times (last time not as bad as some). If it were just a few people I would dismiss it the same as you, but I happen to know for a fact its not. Server crashes happen, big whoop - that I understand.

As you yourself said the email from "GM Gus" admits that the issue is on their side and that they are trying to fix it, but by the same tolken I am sure a TON of people who have sent in reports have gotten the same ol' "It's your PC, ISP, or lack of intellectual button mashing."

Yes I am a bit cynical, unlike most people I haven't been able to play in lord knows how long because of the lag. I understand that just like last time that many people said they didn't have the problem and that the vast majority yelling were just on bad routers.... It gets a bit tiring and annoying having to repeat ones self - I may not be a whiz when it comes to my computer but I can get around in it just fine without a map. I have done all the scans, I have uninstalled and reinstalled, I have done everything under the sun that has been suggested or thought up other than doing a happy rain dance around it. ISP cable provider HAS been called! I refuse to replace my router for a SECOND time because last time it was $50 down the drain when Anet finally admitted it was their issue.

Yeah if you don't read at least THIS whole thread (as most of us posting in here have) then yeah you are going to likely get flamed for trolling. This is NOT a secluded issue of idiots on computers - if it was I would be playing GW right now. We just want it fixed and some understanding from others who don't have the same issue. Don't rub salt into the wounds and for petes sake if ya don't have anything constructive to say then don't say anything?

Burn Butt I know you are trying to be of help and some of your ideas are great and might work for a small few, but I can bet that they will not help everyone cause this is an Anet issue, if I didn't believe that I would also be giving out suggestions to make it better. *sighs*

Inde let me know if Anet ever fixes this -_- (Or I am sure Red will)

Edit: about the streaming being the cause - I always let mine finish streaming before I completely log on, just common sense ^_^

Burn Butt · Sep 01, 2006, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

Are you suggesting that quite a few GW players NICs went on the blitz exactly two weeks ago, but only affects GW?, or that these people's drivers became corrupted two weeks ago, and only affects GW?

You're correct I think when you say that a couple dozen posts does not constitute a pattern... It doesn't. I'm not discounting you for trying to find a solution by any means nessicary and also I conceed the fact that ANet does not seem to provide you with much help or insite when you ask for assistance. Also I don't agree with another poster in here who concludes that a lack of a monthly fee means that if they have bad servers that you should just 'take it'. If you have a legitimate problem, it should be addressed. Perhaps the fact that ANet is not very supportive in terms of giving you substantiated evidence that their servers are running as they should be has led you to confuse this lack of information with evidence of guilt, but I can assure you that those two concepts are mutually exclusive. In order to blame ANet, every link in the chain must be ruled out first, unless they are going to give you information that they have a problem.

Has anyone tried a tracert command to ANets servers while they were having trouble? Perhaps a ping -t to watch for spikes in lag?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

Where do you live? The west coast seems completely unaffected.

The West coast probably feeds off of a different backbone AND into a different datacenter.

I live in Highlands Ranch, Colorado which is about 20 minutes from Denver. Do we know if GW has multiple data centers located regionally.